RE: Indisputable Evidence of @akarantain Being an Intentional Art Plagiarist and a Poseur.
Whenever I see someone "policing" the world (or a tiny fraction of it) like this, it makes me think of the stories my grandfather told me of the Nazi Regime, that had targeted him as "Volksschädling" (enemy of the people... actually quite an honor today).
The Nazis too prided themselves to rid the world of "waste", pointing their fingers to what they thought was wrong and always claimed to have whatever evidence was needed to support their sick cause. Roland Freisler comes to mind with his arrogant and complacent way of prosecuting those opposing the system in which he felt strong.
So, I wonder what joy you get from hammering down on someone who enjoys drawing and creating what they like. I find it particularly pathetic to attack someone who will not be able to put up much of a defense or even retaliate. Don't you think, people in Venezuela for instance have enough to worry about?
Why don't you take on a real enemy? If you want to be the hero, you should fight someone strong and with the means to jeopardize your own position.. dig up some real and damaging mischief and abuse. Demonstrate your cause at the top art fairs and exhibitions of the world. You will find plenty to reveal. And there its about big money... not just a few upvotes, that might grant some little guy just that tiny bit to carry on.
This is a nice piece of art you did. How would you like if I made a post and said it was mine and got paid $50 for it?
I see your point. If you just took it as is, posted it as your own and got lots of rewards for it, I'd send you a friendly warning, asking to reveal the truth and donate the money to a good cause.
If you took the time and effort to draw your own copy, I might actually feel flattered, because it would indeed have to be a considerable effort to do a decent job. I would still try to educate you on copyright and ask you to tell what your source is, but I would not try to make you feel bad about it. Creating something beautiful is hard enough, so I would always try to encourage and if necessary suggest some guidance in the right direction.
I have posted my work on the internet since 1994 if I remember correctly. Its been downloaded and copied countless times. People have shown it as their own. People take photos of it in my gallery and print it out and frame it. There you could say its really a kind of theft, as I don't get the payment I should have for that.... what am I gonna do. I can't call the police every time and so I look at it as a kind of "cost" for promotion. My art is distributed and shown around. OK, not necessarily the way you want, but there is always a chance, that someone who really likes it sees my art and investigates a little to find me and actually purchases an original. It has happened.
In this scenario you have the advantage of knowing it was done. In reality the authors almost never know.
On Steem people are being paid, it is different than someone just taking it and using it in their blog.
I'm all with you! And the fact, that its all recorded gives the opportunity to react. The question remains for me, what an adequate reaction looks like. And of course everyone has their own idea about that.
All I plead for is, what we call "Verhältnismäßtigkeit der Mittel" (proportionality of means).
Therefore I would like to see a distinction between simply taking (with little or no change) and something done with a certain effort involved. I'm not saying to "let go" of wrong doing. I'm saying, lets all go reasonably about it. Meaning, yes, go after notorious violators of rules and community standards. But give someone a chance first to correct a mistake and to learn and improve.
edit:
To me it looks like @lamouthe and @anthonyadavisii have added some valid points, seeing the issue from different angles and bringing two voices of reason into the discussion.
Most people doing this on Steemit will deny they did anything wrong and that it is their work. As someone who fights abuse daily, this is true 95% of the time.
There is financial incentive to every action here. Most are here to take advantage of that regardless of ethics.
It’s hard to prevent that at the same time giving people infinite chances and benefit of the doubt.
I wouldn’t be so against someone if they took another persons work as inspiration and made their own version of it (unless they traced it or used other means that make this trivial) and submitted and disclosed it as such.
If someone is undiscerning, I agree with you completely. Would not have thought the situation is this bad, as I would expect, that anybody in their right mind would correct a mistake, when given the chance. And I'm not asking for infinite chances. Of course there has to be improvement.
I could be completely misjudging the situation, but when a fellow steemian edits a post after being made aware of a wrongdoing, could that not be seen as "correcting" of the very issue? Particularly, when that person from then on respects the rules?
You are misinformed, the user didnt edit those 21 posts when told the references needed to be cited on January 5, the user only did so after the posts were revealed in our reports, almost a month after.
Even if the person would be respecting the rules now(which you cannot assert with confidence), given that it was proven the user lied about the artwork mentioned in the post not being made from a reference image it is well established that the user intentionally omitted to mention it not because of inadvertance but with the intent to deceive. Hence, even if the user would be following the rules now, that fact has no merit or virtue and it is in no way redeeming for there is no merit or virtue in correcting something when forced to.
We report facts, if you dont like those facts that's not our problem. Thank you for your opinion.
Of course you have the right to do so and you are right, what I think about it is in fact insignificant.
I just wonder, why you go about it in a way, that appears somewhat aggressive. When I look at your profiles, you seem like the same decent and good hearted people, who feel alienated by your actions right now.
@ailindigo, you are an artist yourself and i understand, that with your photography you are concerned about copyright. And although it might not always sound like it in the comments I see, I am sure, it is a serious issue for every serious content creator.
@guiltyparties, if I see it correctly, you are a veteran? At least your blog leads me to believe you are. I served on a (German) Submarine myself for 4 years during cold war and I know what it means to be in the armed forces, even without seeing real combat. You have my respect!
My question remains, why all this has to go out of hand like this. In Germany we have a saying that goes something like: "don't shoot sparrows with a cannon". What I'm trying to say is, I think your intentions are noble, but maybe the method is a bit... how should I say... exaggerated for lack of a better word (English isn't my native language).
I have seen much bigger cases of abuse on steemit than a few kids copying a drawing. And why not talk to them first, when you see they are violating a rule? It might not even be with bad intentions.
One could just as well contact them with a polite "warning" and give them the opportunity to correct their mistake. Of course, when someone is a notorious thief or abuser, stronger action might be necessary... and for that, the steem community has some tools in place already.
So, why don't we all calm down a bit. You could still find the things you think are not right. But why not work with these people, instead of against them? Educate instead of making someone feel bad.
Any decent soldier I ever met, knows the value of peace just like every decent artist. How can we dream of world peace, when a few folks on a tiny social network can't get along?
Hope you will give it some thought :-)
I like your soldier analogy, Reinhard. Correct. Of all the things I've done and been in my life, I can relate. I was in the Austrian Air Force in my youth. It doesn't compare to your experiences though - I wound up being a pencil-pusher at Headquarters, so I quit. But being a railroader later on in Canada, outdoor often in Winter, was probably a better field experience. And yes, eventually and concurrently, I was and am a artist. And I always have a soft spot for those that are weak and defenseless. To relentlessly attack and keep kicking them while they are down is the action of cowards. There are bigger fish to fry than going after young artists trying to learn the craft and maybe making small mistakes - and I have yet to chide anyone that copied my work, except on those occasions where someone had ripped off my images for commercial purposes. So I filed a take-down notice (find out how). Copy me all you want, but don't sell t-shirts with my art on it!
When I talk about bigger fish - look at the art market today, Koons, Hirst, even Warhol (rest his soul) and the successive copies of Duchamp's urinals. Brave guys here, taking on little artists.
At least I can say that the foes I fight (in my blogs) are the big boys I named above. Just one of many: LAOKOON, ANTI-LAOKOON and ANTI-KOONS.
Anyone that knows me also knows where I've been and what I am talking about. Steemit is but a small side-track for me.
But I am discouraged that after bashing Facebook for their nipple-police-art-control:
SUSANNAH MARTIN ARTICLE IN HUFFINGTON POST HIT BY FACEBOOK CENSORSHIP (and subsequently having 2 of my accounts locked up) to be confronted here with similar small-minded trolls.
I thought Steemit would be a better place, but what I see is greed and spitefulness taking over. There are almost more wars fought here than actual constructive and interesting postings - something that is not easy to find among the trending fluff (where the hell are all these votes coming from - and how do they affect the pool for the little guys?) - but yes, go ahead and punish the little guys and take away the few pennies from their posts.
If by young artists you are referring to the 40 year old user @akarantain, well... 40 years of lifetime is enough to be expected to know that taking the work of others, passing it as yours and trying to profit from it is wrong... and if the user didnt learn it in 40 years, she probably never will. Additionally, take into account the user has been in steem for 15 months.
We believe you refuse to see what is in plain sight, that this is a case of serial, intentional, premeditated art plagiarism, the evidence above shows that without a shade of a doubt, but you still refuse to see it. It seems to be true that "there is no one more blind than the one that doesnt want to see" and it seems to apply perfectly to your case. This is not a small mistake sir, this is intentional, premeditated deception by a poseur and you are condoning it.
We highly respect you as an artist but you are defending the indefensible and we strongly disagree with you in this regard.
Have a good day.
Never in my life I could dedicate myself to drawing and much less to a professional level due to personal circumstances I actually graduated in administration and in steemit I was able to develop one of my biggest hobbies. Do not talk about me if you do not know me.
What part of what is asserted is not true?
First it was "my intention was never to hide it", now that has been proven to be a lie, what's your next excuse Ms.?
Hello, sir @reinhard-schmid. Yes, it is a serious issue for every serious content creator, and it is because of that that I couldn't take this so lightly and think any serious content creator shouldn't either.
I wouldn't be happy if I see someone posting a photograph of mine as his/hers, I wouldn't be happy if I see someone making a reproduction of a photograph of mine as a drawing and saying it's from her/his when asked (as you read in this post), and I wouldn't trust this person at all if I see that she/he deleted a comment in which she/he lied (almost automatically it seems, I would say). Even if this person gets just 5$ or 50$ it is bad, it's not just about the money.
Sir, we have been fighting abuse for a long time and this is a common and expected behavior and reaction, you might think our method is a bit tough but that's what it is, just a method, our experience has told us that educating or talking/correcting via DM doesn't work, not with malicious people, and this person has made the same mistake more than 3 times and even lied about it. You might think this is too small or silly but if we allow "little things" like this what can we expect in the future?
We are just long term thinkers and that is why we created this organization, we believe in a serious platform with only serious people that have integrity and ethics. We do dream of a world of peace in which we all can get along and in order to achieve that there are things that need to be fixed.
Thank you very much for taking time to read and be part of this debate, and I hope you will give this some thought too :)
Thank you for your kind reply. No need to call me "sir" though 🙂
I am giving this a lot of thought. What you have to say and also the rest of this rather heated discussion. To the point, that it is distracting me from my work.
You have made your point and it was probably important to have this debate.
For me it has been a big learning experience in many aspects. I do appreciate all my colleagues loyal attempt to help each other, even with some of them being rather... how should I say... passionate. Artists are very emotional and they should be.
Abuse is a serious issue and I would expect, that a majority of the steem community would agree, that it has to be kept under control. On the other hand, a significant part of the artist community agrees, that certain cases of "copying" are tolerated, sometimes actually encouraged, i. e. as an educational tool.
It looks, like so far you have done your homework and I'm not debating your facts. But although I've been proven wrong a time or two, I believe in the good of people and hope all this will lead to better communication between all parties involved and yes, integrity and ethics. And with all seriousness, please leave a little room for joy and humor.
@reinhard-schmid great reply my friend! This is by far the best analogy made. We went from Facebook and the horrid "nipple-police-nazis" to Steemit, and what do we find here? Similar trolls goosestepping, insignificant fools with a Napoleon Complex trying to intimidate people.
Well, we are not intimidated!