Preliminary observations about Thoth economics
Q1: How much does it cost to run the LLMs that power Thoth?
A1: Someone has to provide the computer for Thoth along with the manpower to run/schedule it, but aside from that, the cost is zero: $0.
Free APIs from Google Gemini or ArliAI can be used.
As you can see, the usage rate fits comfortably into the Gemini free tier, even for Gemini-2.5-Pro.
(The usage shown covers about 2 or 3 runs per day - which is enough to optimize voting power, plus some additional testing.)
Q2: What sort of return does it give to delegators?
A2: It depends, and it will always change. We have some real-world numbers to look at now, though. For comparatively large delegators, we can use Steemworld to compare pending curation rewards (from auto-voting) and beneficiary rewards from penny4thoughts.
Curation:
Beneficiaries:
So, 9 STEEM/SP for delegation vs. 26 SP for curation. And penny4thoughts has a little more than 2x dedicated to curation vs. delegation. So, at present that account's delegation is generating about 2/3 as many rewards as automated voting.
For comparatively small delegators, we can look at my wife's account, lisa.palmer.
Curation:
Beneficiaries:
That account has roughly the same amount of SP dedicated to each purpose: auto-voting and delegation. It is set to receive 0.7 SP for curation vs. 3.2 STEEM/SP for delegation. So, delegation is presently outperforming curation by a long-shot for small delegations.
Important point: These results can and will change at any time!
In the long term, past performance tells us almost nothing about future results.
I could be wrong, but my expectation is that if the number of delegators were larger, it would tend to balance out, so that performance would be similar for all accounts. This is because delegators get placed into posts as beneficiaries with a likelihood that's proportionate to their delegation amounts. I believe the discrepancy in the test account is likely due to the small number of delegators, which means everyone is included in all replies. This favors smaller delegators, tipping the scales in their favor.
Q3: Why did the test account switch to posting with 50/50 instead of 100% SP.
A3: Because some of the rewards are being sent to accounts that are likely dead - lost keys, etc... Sending SP to those accounts will reduce interest rates that go to active accounts, so I decided to minimize the SP distributions. (of course, any Thoth operator could set that to their own preferences)
Final note: Over the weekend, I read the article, There Is No A.I., by Jaron Lanier, which raised a fascinating concept. I'm sure I've written about it here, before, but this article refreshed my memory on Lanier's data dignity concept.
The basic idea is that AI is built on a foundation of human creativity, so the automaton should remember and compensate the sources of information that it makes use of.
If we buy into this argument, then maybe there's a moral case to be made that some form of #lifetime-rewards is a necessary enhancement for the Steem blockchain.
Here's an embedded YouTube video with Lanier discussing the concept.
Where exactly should I delegate to if I want to support the project?
0.00 SBD,
0.78 STEEM,
0.78 SP
Hi, thanks for asking! For now, you can delegate to @thoth.test.
Eventually, I expect to launch a new account with a more appropriate name, but I don't think that will be happening any time soon. The code is nowhere near robust enough for that right now.
(I don't know who owns the "social" account, and I use that one mainly for testing the changes that I think are especially likely to break things, so I definitely don't recommend delegating to "social". 😉)
cc: @o1eh
0.00 SBD,
2.56 STEEM,
2.56 SP
Althoth thoth.test this is not really a memorable name, I will remember it and delegate.
Please let me know as soon as something changes. After this month's Steemit marathon, I'm going to need a loooong break and won't be able to keep up with everything.
Speaking of Team Europe. Did you know that we're doing a Burning Countdown? Follow @team-europe and you can burn 100% STEEM every day. Just in case you don't know where to put the VP... ;-)
0.00 SBD,
0.54 STEEM,
0.54 SP
I'm thinking what you're thinking.
0.00 SBD,
0.00 STEEM,
3.51 SP
I did not know that. Thanks for letting me know. I had seen the first of the series, but not the later ones. I went through and upvoted everything I had missed in #burnsteem100. With four Thoth votes per day to make sure the project has some extra rewards to distribute, I rarely have a surplus of voting power nowadays, but for #burnsteem100, I'll take the hit.
0.00 SBD,
1.40 STEEM,
1.40 SP
Yes, I can understand that well.
Maybe four posts a day is too much? Not really, of course (from the point of view of the good cause). I unfollowed Thoth yesterday because four posts in my own feed bothered me. Now I have to check on it directly, which I'm guaranteed to forget often.
Burning the ‘stuff’ is the only thing we can think of at the moment regarding the miserable ‘state’ of Chain's blogging section.... 😔
0.00 SBD,
0.23 STEEM,
0.23 SP
Sorry, I wasn't clear on that point. It normally only posts 2x per day, with four replies to each post. So, just two feed appearances. I think that's the fewest that I can do and still make full use of Thoth's voting for authors and delegators. (2 * (1 post and 4 replies) is a total of 10 votes).
I use four votes per day because I vote 100% for the two top-level posts and 25% each for the eight replies.
I might go back to 5 replies per post because it's getting back to 100% just a little too quickly, but if I do that it's gonna bump one of the delegators out of the top level post, and five replies per post is the most I can do without starting to lose author beneficiaries. I'll have to play with that some more to see how the 4 vs. 5 replies balances out..
If I we had more than 8 beneficiaries per post, it could be done in a single feed appearance (1 post and 9 or 10 replies), but that won't work with the 8 beneficiary limit that's currently in place.
All that to say I agree that 4 would've probably been too much. Fortunately, it's not doing that, and I'm minimizing feed appearances as much as I can.
Also, I saw the new delegation. Thank you very much!
0.00 SBD,
6.14 STEEM,
6.14 SP
Ah, okay, I see.
Then I’ll take a closer look at the project - as soon as the “Team Europe stress” is over... 😎
The delegation is clearly for a good cause (even if I forget to vote) - you’re welcome... 😊
0.00 SBD,
0.23 STEEM,
0.23 SP
I would also like to get an answer to this question.
0.00 SBD,
0.70 STEEM,
0.70 SP
chriddi, moecki and/or the-gorilla